Curse

Arwen Granger · Jan 12, 2008, 09:18 PM // 21:18

To the 117 who got banned:
1. can anyone care to pm or email me (through guru) if you are one of the first seed players who got into this outpost? I was lead into this outpost through a guildie and he told me that he first got into the hidden outpost AFTER killing Mallyx the normal way, then his client got kicked out/ disconnected and when he reconnected he was landed into this outpost. I just want to collaborate if this version is fact as I only heard it from my guildie.

2. So, if the access method of this outpost is through normal game play - (note that reconnection is normal!) ArenaNet cannot accuse us of hacking or exploit, as has been communicated through all the officially published innuendos (i.e. official GW personnel postings in Guru). If we can prove that the access is through normal game play, what Arenanet has been saying here is designed to defame us to make us look bad (i.e. they are spinning).

3. Personally, I have been kicked out of my guild within 12 hours I told them I've been banned. Lost access to guild web site, vent etc because my guild has a "no hacking" policy. As I do communicate with my guildies through emails, web chat etc, this is causing me stress and anxiety in real life.

4. To those of you who got banned, I'd like to get a defence team setup. If there are lawyers in the group, I'd like to hear from you. We may have a case here.

Thanks
Kai

Bryant Again · Jan 12, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen Granger

4. To those of you who got banned, I'd like to get a defence team setup. If there are lawyers in the group, I'd like to hear from you. We may have a case here.

The EULA stated that ANet could do anything they want to your account. If that includes banning, putting glitter in your hair, turning your skin color to rainbow, or changing your name to "Gookilyglop Funbucks," they can do it.

Since you agreed to the EULA, you don't have much of a case.

Dr Strangelove · Jan 12, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen Granger

4. To those of you who got banned, I'd like to get a defence team setup. If there are lawyers in the group, I'd like to hear from you. We may have a case here.

Please do this. It would be the funniest thing ever to happen on these boards.

Clait · Jan 12, 2008, 09:21 PM // 21:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It's not going to be a win-win for anyone, really, just as long as you're cautious. But it's best to keep the line fuzzy than clear, the former keeps more people at bay.

Yet had the line been clear, the point of non-return would be an obvious deterant. Some people just live on the edge.

Bryant Again · Jan 12, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

Yet had the line been clear, the point of non-return would be an obvious deterant. Some people just live on the edge.

Dr. Strangelove has given a better reason than I for this:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Strangelove

It's an awesomely bad idea to define exactly where the line for a permanent ban lies. If you do, then folks like you will go right up to that edge without crossing over. It's better to have a general looming threat that says "If you do stuff we don't like, we can ban you." It's easier, it's a better deterrent, and you don't have to deal with people splitting hairs later on.

It means that people will know what they can get away with.

Trub · Jan 12, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The EULA stated that ANet could do anything they want to your account. If that includes banning, putting glitter in your hair, turning your skin color to rainbow, or changing your name to "Gookilyglop Funbucks," they can do it.

Since you agreed to the EULA, you don't have much of a case.

Yep...on target as always.
I want you to write the next EULA when it updates again.

To those that were banned:
READ THE EULA PLEASE.
If you felt un-justly banned...email gaile.

EDIT: *hugz* Chicken, Ryan, and Alex.

Chicken Ftw · Jan 12, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clait

Yet had the line been clear, the point of non-return would be an obvious deterant. Some people just live on the edge.

But if the line is clear, then everyone and their grandmother will start doing everything not quite ban-worthy, because there's no punishment for doing so.

Offtopic - Doc, Trub and Alex = <3

Arwen Granger · Jan 12, 2008, 09:26 PM // 21:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

The EULA stated that ANet could do anything they want to your account. If that includes banning, putting glitter in your hair, turning your skin color to rainbow, or changing your name to "Gookilyglop Funbucks," they can do it.

Since you agreed to the EULA, you don't have much of a case.

Sorry, you have to separate two things:
1. Access to outpost - Arenanet can terminate the accounts as per EULA, no worries. They can ban accounts till the cows come home.
2. Defaming those players who accessed the outpost as "hackers" in public forums like guildwarsguru is not protected by the EULA. This is libel.

Bryant Again · Jan 12, 2008, 09:31 PM // 21:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen Granger

2. Defaming those players who accessed the outpost as "hackers" in public forums like guildwarsguru is not protected by the EULA. This is libel.

The statement in the very first post was written thusly (hah, I finally get to use that word!):

Quote:

An exploit was recently discovered in Guild Wars that allowed client-hackers to travel to a hidden outpost. From that outpost, they could travel directly into the room containing Mallyx, the final boss in the Domain of Anguish.

This hidden outpost existed strictly for testing purposes and was never accessible through normal play. Only by hacking the client, or partying with someone who had done so, could a player access that outpost.

It is not implied that all of them were hackers.

Lady Ana Stacia · Jan 12, 2008, 09:33 PM // 21:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arwen Granger

Sorry, you have to separate two things:
1. Access to outpost - Arenanet can terminate the accounts as per EULA, no worries. They can ban accounts till the cows come home.
2. Defaming those players who accessed the outpost as "hackers" in public forums like guildwarsguru is not protected by the EULA. This is libel.

Your missing something on the libel issue. Anet did not post ANYWHERE here is a list of the 117 people banned and they are known hackers. All Anet did was state that 117 were banned. The have done the same thing in the past stating they banned 4000 bots in one week. Does that mean those 4000 people can claim libel as well?

Most people wouldn't even know who except you have all come out admitting you where one of the banned. Btw, can't sue a company claiming libel when it is only for an IGN!

-Sonata- · Jan 12, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

I have to agree with Bry and again emphasize that people here need to start reading things very carefully.

It has not been stated that all players are hackers. There are two seperate groups here. The one(s) who are directly responsible for the exploit by using this hack and the others are the players who used the exploit as a result of it.

In another statement made by Gaile, "you get to the outpost by hacking the client, or by using the exploit gained through the client hack.

I just watched a few programmers use every trick in the book, including Guild Halls and other things, to try to end up at that hidden outpost (as a few players have claimed they did.) And the programmers could not make it happen.

You didn't get to the outpost from a crash, a server burp, a roll-back, a glitch with the Guild Hall, or a sacrifice to Grenth. So my point is, some of the banned players may not have done the actual hacking, but they certainly used the exploit that resulted from the hack, and they certainly were able to profit from it.

Nothing in this is confusing. The only people labelling everyone as hackers are those who are labelling themselves without reading through these statements carefully.

Inde · Jan 12, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

And Guru has, in fact, deleted several lists that players have tried to start with the 117 names. Anyone who has been banned, and who's names you might know, are strictly those who have come forward and admitted so themselves.

Thierry2 · Jan 12, 2008, 09:36 PM // 21:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by pochoWICKED

Yea I got banned too. Not Happy about it. A lot of 1337 people got banned for this. And I think we should have at least got a warning or something before a straight-up permanent ban. Whatever though, I just don't think it's right, because pretty much everyone involved in this has been playing for like 2 years and has spent a lot of money buying expansions, char slots, etc....

Lol... everyone who plays this game knows that he/she isn't allowed to use exploits. So why should they first warn you?

Anyways.. i agree with Anet.

Creeping Carl · Jan 12, 2008, 09:37 PM // 21:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by leprekan

If said outpost was meant for testing only .. why did they bother actually building a graphic for it?

Umm so the outpost should be a blank white space? As a former QA game tester for a few years (Not with ANET), I tested games that had areas inaccessible to the normal players. Those areas had graphics as well. Why wouldnt they? Sometimes they're areas that were left over and wont be used in the game or they're just recycled from another area. So your excuse is completely lame.

So do you people who got banned understand why so many don't believe you? Because of the lame excuses and justifications that you're all making. The only valid excuse is if you got dragged to MallyX once and never went back and yet still got banned. But from what you've posted you went back multiple times. And claim to not know it wasnt intended for the general public, because the outpost has graphics? Lame.

Arwen Granger · Jan 12, 2008, 09:41 PM // 21:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lady Ana Stacia

Your missing something on the libel issue. Anet did not post ANYWHERE here is a list of the 117 people banned and they are known hackers. All Anet did was state that 117 were banned. The have done the same thing in the past stating they banned 4000 bots in one week. Does that mean those 4000 people can claim libel as well?

Most people wouldn't even know who except you have all come out admitting you where one of the banned. Btw, can't sue a company claiming libel when it is only for an IGN!

Argh, sorry. Arenanet did post it in their dev update wiki page that "only by hacking the client" can the client-hackers access this outpost, so they are banned.
When I found that I'm banned, I posted in my guild web page about this, and my guildies do know about my name, email address, etc so they can identify me. After several hours my access to guild was cut as they have a no hacker policy. This is causing me real stress and anxiety as I can't connect with my guildies of nearly 2 years.
So, by classifying me as a hacker when this access issue is really caused by an ArenaNet bug, I think I have a case of defamation.

OOshadeOO · Jan 12, 2008, 09:45 PM // 21:45

poor exploiters(sorry for my mistake mr pie sheesh) got their accounts got banned im reely sorry for them all. nat

TheGreatPie · Jan 12, 2008, 09:48 PM // 21:48

Ok klets get One thing straight NO hacking was involved they said that so they could justify their means of getting more money end of story

Gaile Gray · Jan 12, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by HuntMaster Avatar

sounds like anet keeps short cuts for their own personal gain. they probably never have to work as hard as normal players do.

No. We cannot access this outpost on our player characters, and if an employee were to exploit his/her GM abilities, or use some sort of exploit to attain personal benefit, you can be assured there would be very serious consequences.

Shan: You've raised some interesting points, but one of the first things I'd like to suggest is that we consider that not all who claim they are "testing" are truly testing. Let me give you a for-instance:

Player A: Hey, I found an exploit.
Player B: Oh yeah? Well, send a ticket to ArenaNet and let's exploit the heck out of it until they have a chance to close the exploit. Since it's the holidays and all, it may take them a while, and in the meantime, by sending a "I think there may be an exploit" report, we (and as many people as we choose with whom to share this "secret info") have free access to all the riches we can farm.

The point is, a report is very very helpful, but it cannot be seen as a "Get Out of Jail Free" card. If that is what is appears I've said, I apologize. It is possible to reconstruct these things, and the people who report and continue farming are doing the wrong thing, even if they did the right thing in reporting. We know of cases where people have farmed an exploit and waited until it appeared to be nearing resolution, upon which they reported it, hoping to slide under the radar as an exploiter.

We are going to review things, of course. We greatly appreciate reports and yes, there is some latitude towards those who report, within reason. When we review appeals, if there is any possibility of fairly and rightfully restoring an account, we will try to do so. I've offered to help in any way that I can, and I know our QA, Support, and Content Programming Teams are all working to resolve each individual case in the best possible way -- for the player and for the game.

Those sending exploit details: We are testing, but so far are not able to establish that any of the methods you suggest are workable. (Yes, we know this is corrected on Live; we can test in pre-existing state on another server.) Hacking the client did work, that's without doubt. Partying with someone who hacked the client did work, and yes, once someone was there, it appears that he/she could be a ferry into the hidden outpost for others. But we have not yet found any other means to get into the hidden outpost in order to exploit the Mallyx portion of the DoA mission. However, we will spend as much time as needed to test this in order to resolve any reports. Thank you for letting us know your thoughts and suggestions.

Trub · Jan 12, 2008, 09:52 PM // 21:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheGreatPie

Ok klets get One thing straight NO hacking was involved they said that so they could justify their means of getting more money end of story

Nope. 1...2...3...4...117

Quote:

An exploit was recently discovered in Guild Wars that allowed client-hackers to travel to a hidden outpost. From that outpost, they could travel directly into the room containing Mallyx, the final boss in the Domain of Anguish.

This hidden outpost existed strictly for testing purposes and was never accessible through normal play. Only by hacking the client, or partying with someone who had done so, could a player access that outpost.

EDIT: Gaile came back, and states the same..

/wave Heyas Gaile!

Gaile Gray · Jan 12, 2008, 09:55 PM // 21:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trub

To those that were banned:
READ THE EULA PLEASE.
If you felt un-justly banned...email gaile.

Sorry, but I have to make a correction: Please submit a Support Ticket. Support is gathering and reviewing all appeals. ArenaNet is involved in setting parameters and may be involved in assessing the appeals. But emailing or PMing me is not going to be fruitful -- appeals must go through Support.